Did this book make a mistake?

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Did this book make a mistake?

Unread postby Ara » Fri May 01, 2015 7:04 pm

Just bought a book for beginners (and yes, children lol) and in it, it has pictures of animals with a short description of each. However, for squirrel, the English statement says (EXACTLY what's written here): "They can consume forty pounds of pecans each year." Then for the Cherokee translation, it says, "Nv (gi) s go tsu da ge (da) ye li quu yi da ni gi so a ni nv hi (da) nu de ti yv sa di s sv." That first word is what's confusing me here. I've learned so far, that when we put 'sgo' at the end of the first word in a sentence, we're asking "is it?", however nowhere in the description of the squirrel is it asking a question.

Another thing I've often wondered about is, when I go to pick apart a sentence, how come the main word for something is nowhere to be found? For example, "v tsi" is the word for 'snow', yet it's nowhere in "Da gu ta (na) ni s" (Is it going to snow?) or the word for 'you' is 'ni hi', but in the sentence, "What do YOU do?" ( Ga do ha dv ne), the word for 'you' is not there?
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Re: Did this book make a mistake?

Unread postby magali » Sat May 02, 2015 2:21 pm

Ara wrote:Just bought a book for beginners (and yes, children lol) and in it, it has pictures of animals with a short description of each. However, for squirrel, the English statement says (EXACTLY what's written here): "They can consume forty pounds of pecans each year." Then for the Cherokee translation, it says, "Nv (gi) s go tsu da ge (da) ye li quu yi da ni gi so a ni nv hi (da) nu de ti yv sa di s sv." That first word is what's confusing me here. I've learned so far, that when we put 'sgo' at the end of the first word in a sentence, we're asking "is it?", however nowhere in the description of the squirrel is it asking a question.


Lookup for the word for "forty".

I also find it extremely hard to read with the syllables not assembled into words ...

Ara wrote:Another thing I've often wondered about is, when I go to pick apart a sentence, how come the main word for something is nowhere to be found? For example, "v tsi" is the word for 'snow', yet it's nowhere in "Da gu ta (na) ni s" (Is it going to snow?) or the word for 'you' is 'ni hi', but in the sentence, "What do YOU do?" ( Ga do ha dv ne), the word for 'you' is not there?


It is in there, just not as a word that stands by itself. Cherokee does not work like English.

Gado hadvneha?

The "hi-" prefix which is the "you (one person)" indicator becomes h- on "advneha" .

See TOPIC 7 READING 1 in the classroom at: https://jalagigawoni.gnomio.com/course/ ... #section-7

https://jalagigawoni.gnomio.com/course/view.php?id=2#section-7 wrote:Bound Pronouns

Cherokee pronouns operate quite differently than the English pronouns such as “I”, “you”, “he”, “she”, “it”, “we”, and “they”.

• There are four main groups of bound pronouns: “Set A”, “Set B”, “Combined”, and “Object Focus”.

• These pronouns are always bound to the beginning of a word. This is why they are called “bound pronouns” and not just “pronouns”.

• They are used to:

– Indicate a paired relationship between both who or what is doing something (referred to as a sentence's subject) and to whom or what the something is being done (referred to as a sentence's object). This is represented in the following table by entries like “I ... another”, where the first part, “I” in this case, is the subject, and the part after the “...”, “another” in this case, is the object. How this works in practice will be demonstrated by examples later in this lesson.

– Specify to whom or what a descriptive word, such as a color, applies. In these cases the second part of the pairing is always “him”, “her”, or “it”.

• They are mandatory. Many words must be prefixed with a bound pronoun. If you try and remove the bound pronoun, what is left will be without meaning.

• Cherokee uses the concept of “another” where English uses “he”, “she”, or “it”. There is no distinction based on sex.

• Cherokee does not have a single bound pronoun meaning “we”. Cherokee is more specific than English. In English “he and I” is “we” and “you and I” is also “we”. In Cherokee, these are different bound pronouns. This is why “we” is avoided for many of the English translations. The word “we” does not exist in Cherokee.


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Using the bound pronouns

In the vocabulary accompanying these lessons, you are given the “I ... another” and “he/she/it ... another” forms. These two forms will enable you to use any of the other bound pronouns to create new words and sentences. The following examples show how this done.

Example Vocabulary Entry

ᎠᎪᏩᏘᎭ [a¹gowh²tị³ha] “He/she sees it.”

ᏥᎪᏩᏘᎭ [ji²gowh¹tị³ha] “I see him/her.”

As “agowhtiha” does not start with the “u-” prefix it is a “Set A” word. Removing the “ji-” from the supplied “I am ...” form gives the partial word “-gowhtiha” to which we can add the “Set A” bound pronouns listed previously:

• ji- + -gowhtiha

– “Wahya jigowhtiha”, “A wolf, I see it.”

∗ We know to use “ji-”, as this is the word provided in your vocabulary.

• jị- + -gowhtiha

– “Sadvdi jigowhtiha”, “A trap, I see it.”

• ạgị- + -gowhtiha

– “Ahwi agigowhtiha”, “A deer, it sees me.” - Because this is a “Set A” word this is the only valid meaning.

• hi- + -gowhtiha

– “Ahwi higowhtiha.”, “A deer, you see it.”

• hị- + -gowhtiha

– “Nvya higowhtiha.”, “A rock, you see it.”

• ja- + -gowhtiha

– “Ahwi jagowhtiha.”, “A deer, it sees you.” - Because this is a “Set A” word this is the only valid meaning.

• a- + -gowhtiha

– “Entoni doya agowhtiha.”, “Anthony, a beaver, he sees it.”

– “ᏆᏆᎠ gasgilo agowhtiha.”, “Barbara, a chair, she sees it.”

∗ We know to use “a-”, as this is the provided vocabulary word.

• ani- + -gowhtiha

– “Anitali wahya saloli anigowhtiha.”, “Two wolves, a squirrel, they see it.”

– “Aniyvwi gasgilo anigowhtiha.”, “The people, a chair, they see it.”

Example Vocabulary Entry

ᎤᏚᎵᎭ [u¹du²lị³ha] “He/she wants it.”

ᎠᏆᏚᎵᎭ [a¹gwạ²du²lị³ha] “I want it.”

As “uduliha” starts with the “u-” prefix it is a “Set B” word. Removing the “agw-” from the supplied “I ...” form gives the partial word “-aduliha” to which we can add the other “Set B” bound pronouns as follows.

• jiy- + -aduliha

– “Wahya jiyaduliha”, “A wolf, I want it.” - We use jiy- and not ji- because the word starts with a vowel.

• agi-/agw- + -aduliha

– “Sadvdi agwaduliha”, “A trap, I want it.” - The only meaning that makes sense is “I ... it” because a trap is inanimate.

– “Ahwi agwaduliha”, “A deer, it wants me.” - The only meaning that makes sense is “Another ... me” because a deer is animate.

– “Agwaduliha”, “I want it.” - The most likely meaning is “I ... it” because the “it” wasn't specified.

∗ We use “agw-” and not “agi-” because “-aduliha” starts with a vowel sound.

• hiy- + -aduliha

– “Ahwi hiyaduliha.”, “A deer, you want it.” - We use hiy- and not hi- because the words starts with a vowel.

• ja- + -aduliha

– “Nvya jaduliha.”, “A rock, you want it.” - The only meaning that makes sense is “You ... it” because a rock is inanimate.

– “Ahwi jaduliha.”, “A deer, it wants you.” - The only meaning that makes sense is “Another ... you” because a deer is animate.

– “Jaduliha.”, “You want it.” - The most likely meaning is “You ... it” because the “it” wasn't specified.

• u- + -aduliha (animate)

– “ᏆᏆᎠ doya uduliha.”, “Barbara, a beaver, she wants it.”

– “Entoni gasgilo uduliha.”, “Anthony, a chair, he wants it.”

∗ We know to use “u-” and not “uw-” as this is the supplied vocabulary word in the lesson material.

∗ The “u-” replaces “a-”.

• uni- + -aduliha (plural of the animate form)

– “Anitali wahya saloli uniduliha.”, “Two wolves, a squirrel, they want it.”

– “Aniyvwi gasgilo uniduliha.”, “The people, a chair, they want it.”

ᎬᏂᎭ [gv²hnị³ha] “He/she is hitting it.”

ᎬᏂᎭ [gv¹nị³ha] “I am hitting it.” (The low fall tone on “v” indicates this is “I” and not “he or she”).

As “gvhniha” does not start with the “u-” prefix it is a “Set A” word. Removing the “g-” from the “I ...” form gives the partial word “-vniha” to which we can add the other “Set A” bound pronouns as follows.

• ji- + -vniha

– “Wahya jiyvniha.”, “A wolf, I am hitting it.”

∗ The “v” maintains the low fall tone.

• g- + -vniha

– “Sadvdi gvniha.”, “A trap, I am hitting it.”

∗ This is the word provided in your vocabulary.

• ạgị- + -vniha

– “Ahwi agwvniha.”, “A deer, it is hitting me.” - Because this is a “Set A” word this is the only valid meaning.

• hi- + -vniha

– “Ahwi hiyvniha.”, “A deer, you are hitting it.”

• hị- + -vniha

– “Nvya hvniha.”, “A rock, you are hitting it.”

• ja- + -vniha

– “Ahwi jvniha.”, “A deer, it is hitting you.” - Because this is a “Set A” word this is the only valid meaning.

• g- + -vniha

– “Entoni doya gvhniha.”, “Anthony, a beaver, he is hitting it.”

– “Gwagwaa gasgilo gvhniha.”, “Barbara, a chair, she is hitting it.”

∗ This is the word provided in your vocabulary.

• ani- + -vniha

– “Aniyvwi saloli anvhniha.”, “The people, a squirrel, they are hitting it.”

– “Aniyvwi gasgilo anvhniha.”, “The people, a chair, they are hitting it.”

∗ This is the plural of the provided “he ...” vocabulary form and so maintains the added “h” sound.

ᎤᎨᏳᎭ [u¹ge²yụ³ha] “He/she is possessive of it.”, “He/she loves him/her.”

ᎠᎩᎨᏳᎭ [a¹gị²ge²yụ³ha] “I am possessive of it.”

As “ugeyuha” starts with the “u-” prefix it is a “Set B” word. Removing the “agi-” from the “I ...” form gives the partial word “-geyuha” to which we can add the other “Set B” bound pronouns as follows.

• ji- + -geyuha

– “ᏆᏆᎠ jigeyuha”, “Barbara, I love her.”

• agi-/agw- + -geyuha

– “Sadvdi agigeyuha.”, “A trap, I am possessive of it.” - The only meaning that makes sense is “I ... it” because a trap is inanimate.

– “Wahya agigeyuha.”, “A wolf, it loves me.” - The only meaning that makes sense is “Another ... me” because a wolf is animate.

– “Agigeyuha.”, “I am possessive of it.” The most likely meaning is “I ... it” because the “it” wasn't specified.

• hi- + -geyuha

– “Entoni higeyuha.”, “Anthony, you love him.”

• ja- + -geyuha

– “Nvya jageyuha.”, “A rock, you are possessive of it.” - The only meaning that makes sense is “You ... it” because a rock is inanimate.

– “Wahya jageyuha.”, “A wolf, it loves you.” - The only meaning that makes sense is “Another ... you” because a wolf is animate.

– “Jageyuha.”, “You are possessive of it.” - The most likely meaning is “You ... it” because the “it” wasn't specified.

• u- + -geyuha (animate)

– “ᏆᏆᎠ Entoni ugeyuha.”, “Barbara, Anthony, she loves him.”

– “Entoni Gwagwaa ugeyuha.”, “Anthony, Barbara, he loves her.”

– “Entoni gasgilo ugeyuha.”, “Anthony, a chair, he is possessive of it.”

• uni- + -geyuha (plural of animate form)

– “Aniyvwi ᏆᏆᎠ unigeyuha.”, “The people, Barbara, they love her.”

– “Aniyvwi gasgilo unigeyuha.”, “The people, a chair, they are possessive of it.”

ᏌᎪᏂᎨᎢ [sạ²ko²³nị³ge⁴ɂi] “Blue”, “It is blue”.

Because “sagonigei” does not start with the “u-” prefix it uses the “Set A” bound pronouns. There is not a special “I” form listed, so it uses the “Set A” prefix “ji-” for “I”.

• ji- + -sagonigei

– “Jisagonigei.”, “I-blue”, “I am blue.”

• hi- + -sagonigei

– “Hisagonigei.”, “you-blue”, “You are blue.”

• a- + -sagonigei

– “Asagonigei.”, “he/she-blue”, “It's blue.”

• ani- + -sagonigei

– “Anisagonigei.”, “they-animate-blue”, “They are blue.”

Because “sagonigei” is a descriptive word it only uses prefixes that have a meaning that match “... another”.

ᎤᏲᎢ [u²yo⁴ɂi] “Bad”, “He, she or it is bad”.

Because “uyoi” starts with the “u-” prefix it uses the “Set B” bound pronouns. Because there is not a special “I” form listed, we simply drop “u-” to give the partial word “-yoi” to which we can add the “agi-” and “ja-” bound pronouns.

• agi- + -yoi

– “Agiyoi.”, “I-bad.”, “I am bad.”

• ja- + -yoi

– “Jayoi.”, “you-bad”, “You are bad.”

• u- + -yoi

– “Uyoi.”, “he/she/it-bad.”, “He/she/it is bad.”

∗ This is the word provided in your vocabulary.

• uni- + -yoi

– “Uniyoi.”, “they-animate-bad.”, “They're bad.”

Because “uyoi” is a descriptive word it only uses prefixes that have a meaning that match “... another”.
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